why was no automatic restore xp included

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

"jonah" wrote in message

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" wrote:

"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as

I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

I am glad they did not take the engineering time to do that. This is a frikken BETA!!!! With 6 months left before any "non-techniical" users should even see this, let alone install it.
I know what you are saying, but that functionality is goign to be engineering/testing intensive.....
"jonah" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

They should have not even let the install upgrade XP...they should have left testing that functionality to the technical beta testers... Then there would have been less confusion..though the warnings were all over the place....
"jonah" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

"jonah" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

98 = small XP = big
I see your point, but the complexity would have been pretty high.

I assume because the tool failed testing.
"jonah" wrote in message

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" wrote:

They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.

Indeed Tom. Don't leave home without it. Its a Windows beta. Live and learn kids.

Hi,
People are used to Win9x upgrades where reversion to a previous OS was the norm. In NT systems, the option to "uninstall" has never been a part of the standard installation. Win2K, XP, and Vista are all NT systems, and upgrading any of them are a one way street.
-- Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
"jonah" wrote in message

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

You can get back to your XP the same way you would get your XP back due to a hardware failure, by using your backup. People can not get back to their XP if the hard drive containing the O/S fails, unless they have a backup, so if they are complaining that they can't get back to XP after upgrading to Vista, it makes little difference. They should always have a backup plan.
You can always reinstall XP and reinstall your apps. You will not lose any of your personal files. Unless of course you over write them or reformat the disk they are on (and don't have a backup).
"jonah" wrote in message

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:54:21 +0100, jonah wrote:

DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.

They might have that in the final retail version but I'm sure they did it ON PURPOSE to teach all those little morons who should not touch a beta a nice lesson. If only they had included the black ice like I suggested. -- Michael Cecil http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/ http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/

All in all Jonah, I think it is a good question. But MSFT screwed the pooch when the System Restore team forgot to backport the infrastructure of Volume Shadow Services restore points to Win XP keep an XP/Vista dual boot from loosing them on Vista. It can be done but whether the Microsoft System Restore team will do it is up in the air. Also it would be great if they can get system restore to reliably manufacture restore points at the default times it is supposed to before they start putting Vista on choppers and waving to it and putting it in stores and on sites to sell.
I think you raise a good point although I agree a dual boot is a very good solution because I find:
1) I can go right to my XP desktop and use its shortcuts, files, folders and even access some of its OE by going to the stored folders.:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jonah's XP Profile\Desktop (if XP were on C:\ and you dual booted).
2) I also find that if say you have several users on the Vista box (as a family might or room mates might or couples) that you can access the other user's desktop (I'm not sure that password protection might not require the password this way--don't know--I'd have to try that) by simply typing:
C:\(or whatever drive)\Users\whatever profile\desktop and this is faster than logging off or fast user switching and there are times when Fast User Switching will corrupt a profile and this is one way to use it--some of the recovery options may help get it back or trying to repair the profile.
How to check user profiles on a Windows XP-based computer http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q294887/
For additional information, visit the following Microsoft Web sites: http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/advanced/help/default.asp?url=/windows2000/en/advanced/help/sag_UPconcepts_14.htm (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/advanced/help/default.asp?url=/windows2000/en/advanced/help/sag_UPconcepts_14.htm)
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/support/dataprot.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/termsrv/evaluate/indcomp/tsunix.mspx?mfr=true
How to Recover a Damaged User Profile in Windows XP http://channels.lockergnome.com/it/archives/20041215_get_it_done_recover_a_damaged_windows_xp_user_profile.phtml
CH
"jonah" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

Based on a live meeting I attended yesterday on System Restore, VSS, and CompletePC Backup, backporting the VSS changes to XP is not in the works. The reason given was that it would break a lot of stuff.
"Chad Harris" wrote in message

All in all Jonah, I think it is a good question. But MSFT screwed the pooch when the System Restore team forgot to backport the infrastructure of Volume Shadow Services restore points to Win XP keep an XP/Vista dual boot from loosing them on Vista. It can be done but whether the Microsoft System Restore team will do it is up in the air. Also it would be great if they can get system restore to reliably manufacture restore points at the default times it is supposed to before they start putting Vista on choppers and waving to it and putting it in stores and on sites to sell.
I think you raise a good point although I agree a dual boot is a very good solution because I find:
1) I can go right to my XP desktop and use its shortcuts, files, folders and even access some of its OE by going to the stored folders.:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jonah's XP Profile\Desktop (if XP were on C:\ and you dual booted).
2) I also find that if say you have several users on the Vista box (as a family might or room mates might or couples) that you can access the other user's desktop (I'm not sure that password protection might not require the password this way--don't know--I'd have to try that) by simply typing:
C:\(or whatever drive)\Users\whatever profile\desktop and this is faster than logging off or fast user switching and there are times when Fast User Switching will corrupt a profile and this is one way to use it--some of the recovery options may help get it back or trying to repair the profile.
How to check user profiles on a Windows XP-based computer http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q294887/
For additional information, visit the following Microsoft Web sites: http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/advanced/help/default.asp?url=/windows2000/en/advanced/help/sag_UPconcepts_14.htm (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/advanced/help/default.asp?url=/windows2000/en/advanced/help/sag_UPconcepts_14.htm)
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/support/dataprot.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/termsrv/evaluate/indcomp/tsunix.mspx?mfr=true
How to Recover a Damaged User Profile in Windows XP http://channels.lockergnome.com/it/archives/20041215_get_it_done_recover_a_damaged_windows_xp_user_profile.phtml
CH
"jonah" wrote in message On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

How to start the Windows XP uninstallation process from a command prompt http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308233/en-us
"Uninstall Option Not Available" Error Message When You Upgrade Your Computer to Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303160/EN-US/
How to uninstall Windows XP and revert to a previous operating system http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303661/EN-US/
CH
"Rick Rogers" wrote in message

Hi,
People are used to Win9x upgrades where reversion to a previous OS was the norm. In NT systems, the option to "uninstall" has never been a part of the standard installation. Win2K, XP, and Vista are all NT systems, and upgrading any of them are a one way street.
-- Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

The One Care Live team says on their blog that 65% of people have no backup in discussing their nice backup feature (not as robust as the one in Vista--Vista will back up media files). I put that figure at 80% at the minimum. Using a Beta should be a more compelling reason for having a good backup. I wish there were a way to check to see if a backup were in place before Vista would install.
CH
"Gary Mount" wrote in message

You can get back to your XP the same way you would get your XP back due to a hardware failure, by using your backup. People can not get back to their XP if the hard drive containing the O/S fails, unless they have a backup, so if they are complaining that they can't get back to XP after upgrading to Vista, it makes little difference. They should always have a backup plan.
You can always reinstall XP and reinstall your apps. You will not lose any of your personal files. Unless of course you over write them or reformat the disk they are on (and don't have a backup).
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

If you read the articles you just posted, you'll see they support what I just said. If you upgraded Win2K or WinNT4 to WinXP (both of which are NT systems), then you will find that there is no uninstall. Uninstall was/is only an option when the upgrade is *from* a Win9x system (and even then only under certain conditions). Vista is an NT system, and an upgrade from XP is like any other NT upgrade, ie: not reversible.
-- Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
"Chad Harris" wrote in message

How to start the Windows XP uninstallation process from a command prompt http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308233/en-us
"Uninstall Option Not Available" Error Message When You Upgrade Your Computer to Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303160/EN-US/
How to uninstall Windows XP and revert to a previous operating system http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303661/EN-US/
CH
"Rick Rogers" wrote in message Hi,
People are used to Win9x upgrades where reversion to a previous OS was the norm. In NT systems, the option to "uninstall" has never been a part of the standard installation. Win2K, XP, and Vista are all NT systems, and upgrading any of them are a one way street.
-- Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:32:48 -0700, "Zapper" wrote:

They should have not even let the install upgrade XP...they should have left testing that functionality to the technical beta testers... Then there would have been less confusion..though the warnings were all over the place....

yeah agreed
Jonah

"jonah" wrote in message On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:15:40 -0600, "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

Based on a live meeting I attended yesterday on System Restore, VSS, and CompletePC Backup, backporting the VSS changes to XP is not in the works. The reason given was that it would break a lot of stuff.
snip
Aha, between you and Chad I think the answer has emerged.

8-)
Jonah

It's spelled "backup".
"jonah" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:32:48 -0700, "Zapper" <zapper@uribe-mahler.com wrote:
They should have not even let the install upgrade XP...they should have left testing that functionality to the technical beta testers... Then there would have been less confusion..though the warnings were all over the place....
yeah agreed
Jonah
"jonah" wrote in message On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:00:26 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@gmail.com wrote:
"jonah" wrote in message
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
I was just wondering if there was any specific technical or other reason why MSFT did not include a built in automatic backout in this Public Beta to revert to XP. The results of not doing so were entirely predictable and have caused a lot of grief to a lot of people, their own fault entirely, but still if it was possible it would not have been a bad idea.
Jonah
They did. It's called dual boot and the instructions were quite clear.
Along with the instructions to not put it on a machine where backing out to XP would be important.
Thats not what I mean, when upgrading from Win98SE to XP there was, as I recall a backout to revert to Win98SE, I am wondering if it was possible to have included a similar backout option in this beta and if so why did MSFT not do so, was it for technical or other reasons.
It would have saved a lot of predictable trouble for those people who cannot read instructions / warnings and incidently made it easier for the responders in this NG to help people who did ill advised upgrades to get back to XP.
I am not being critical its just a general interest question.
Jonah

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:40:14 +0100, Conor wrote:

In article , jonah says...
DOWN CONOR - its not one of those "How do I get back to XP posts"
LOL, sorry mate. It's been one of those weeks.

Bit frustrating sometimes innit? I got three "upgraded" Vistas on my workbench need re-installing with the original XP and guess how many original CDs and Driver disks came with them. £35-00 / hour I am not complaining but I hate re-installing OSs its soooo bloody boooooring.
The owners will be even more upset when they get the bill.
Never mind eh!
8-)
Jonah